No Crying in Baseball: an interview
A League of Their Own was the biggest baseball movie of all time, and you can bet the action behind the camera was an all-star game of its own! We spoke to the one woman who could tell us everything.
We don’t need much of an excuse to rewatch A League of Their Own. Geena Davis and that hair, Madonna’s swing moves (bat and dancefloor), Tom Hanks and his perfect line delivery… “There’s no crying… there’s no crying in baseball!”
But this time it was a must, because we’ve been glued to a book covering the film’s fascinating backstory. ‘No Crying in Baseball’ by journalist Erin Carlson charts the personal journeys, big hits and near misses of this beloved box office success.
We spoke to Erin to find out how she uncovered the dugout drama, and what it’s like to go behind-the-scenes of a movie classic.
Hi Erin!
You’ve written about Nora Ephron’s movies, Queen Meryl, and now A League of Their Own. What draws you to ‘backstories’ and this film in particular?
I have always loved reading the real scoop about how my favorite art gets made. Making a movie is a monumental task that requires a filmmaker to get the right script, cast and crew in order — and maybe, just maybe, create something worthwhile. For me, A League of Their Own — still the most successful baseball film of all time — checked off the right boxes for a book. It had an idiosyncratic female director in Penny Marshall, a cast of big, boisterous personalities and original subject matter. A women's baseball league really did exist in patriarchal America during World War II, but few remembered until Penny made a movie about it. Meanwhile, few public records existed that documented the making of this groundbreaking sports classic. It was unmined territory.
You interviewed over 100 people for the book - which interview was particularly memorable or gave you surprise insights?
I loved speaking with Rosie O'Donnell. She is outspoken and real, and she spoke with great affection about her friendship with Madonna on the set. They remain friends to this day! I also loved speaking with the makeup artist who got Madonna and Rosie ready for their closeups. He recalled Rosie being like a mother figure to Madonna, who sought her advice and protective energy. Both women had lost their mothers to breast cancer at a young age, so they connected as motherless young women drawn to the spotlight.
In the book you talk about Helen Candaele and the real-life inspiration behind the script. Can you tell us a bit about that?
Helen Candaele was one of the best sluggers in the All-American Girls Professional Baseball League. She was so good, in fact, that a journalist called her the league's own "Ted Williams," referencing the Major League Baseball Hall-of-Famer. After a few years in the AAGPBL, channeling Dottie Hinson, she left to raise her family. She eventually had five sons, one of whom made a documentary about the league for public television. That son, Kelly Candaele, supplied Penny with the idea for the film and also wrote a treatment — a rough plot and character outline — for it. He created fictionalized versions of his mother and her sister, Marge, who had a spunkier personality and less talent. So, Helen was the Dottie and Marge was the Kit. In Kelly's treatment, the sisters face off in a climactic championship game. Penny and her screenwriters, Lowell Ganz and Babaloo Mandel, liked the sisterly drama and built their script around it.
What was your favourite bit of set gossip that you uncovered while researching the book?
Oh goodness, gossip-wise, researching this book was an embarrassment of riches. The Madonna stories alone. Priceless. I loved hearing about her fun nights in Chicago, where she went to drag clubs and gay bars and caused a stir. At the time, she was the most famous and controversial pop star on the planet. She made news everywhere she went. She used to give Tom Hanks a hard time for coming to set on days when he wasn't required to be there. In Hanks' defense, he loves the chaos and comradery of the filmmaking process. At one point, Penny let him direct the "C" camera that shot scoreboard footage. And quietly, he distributed a secret gossip column called "Peach Phuzz" in reference to the Rockford Peaches. With a benign yet winking tone, it detailed who was canoodling with whom off-camera; copies arrived on Xeroxed paper each Friday, and nobody knew the author was Tom until later in the production.
Is there a piece of information you unearthed that you may have saved from being lost to history?
All of it!!! Does that sound too braggy?
You mentioned Roșie O’Donnell and Madonna’s friendship - were there other lasting friendships or collaborations that came from the film?
Many of the cast and crew members on this film were young, single and in their twenties, and so the four months they spent filming A League of Their Own was especially formative and meaningful. People bonded, fought, hooked up, broke up, made up and made friends forever. It was like going to college! Besides Rosie and Madonna — or "Ro and Mo," as Penny dubbed them — there were lasting friendships between Lori Petty and Tracy Reiner, and Geena Davis and Anne Ramsay, among others. The Peaches remain friendly and protective of one another, almost evoking a real sports team that won a championship title 30 years before. Except, in this case, they won the title of Best Baseball Movie Ever Made.
What still from the movie sums up your experience of writing the book, and why?
The Peaches' team photo, which Penny revealed at the end of the film, when the older women reunited at the Baseball Hall of Fame. I look at Tom and Geena and Lori and Madonna and the rest of the actors and I think of that Robin Williams line from Dead Poets Society, "Carpe diem. Seize the day, boys. Make your lives extraordinary." Except I swap "boys" for "girls." That photo, to me, represents the responsibility I felt toward honoring their achievement and preserving it for posterity, in book form.
To buy Erin’s book, pop over to our US bookshop.org or UK bookshop.org and support local bookshops.
Follow Erin Carlson on Substack here.
What a gorgeous interview! She sounded so enthusiastic about sharing her experience of researching the film. Loved the story about Peach Phuzz! This film is one of my iconic childhood films, even saw it at the cinema when I was about 13!
Am definitely due a rewatch of this! When you look back now you realise what a cast!!